Curse

Epinephrine · Dec 01, 2005, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Well, the kick to the head delivered to the inspiration lineup was unfortunate back whe they changed the way Energy Drain, Energy Tap and Ether Feast worked. No more were these skills powerful energy denial tools. Infact, they aren't even great energy regeneration tools. They're ok I guess, but they're not stellar.

Here's my beef:
Elementalists have energy regen from their primary attribute
Necromancers can manage their energy using their primary attribute - sure they also get a nifty elite in Blood magic, but they have built in energy management.
Monks have, as a rule, efficient spells, and in addition have ways to cut costs - in their primary attribute.
Rangers can reduce their costs using - you guessed it - their primary attribute.

Memsers, for some idiotic reason, have a non-primary attribute responsible for maintaining their energy supply. Not surprisingly, it is nerfed - why? Because EVERY caster end up using it. They can all supplement their casting using mesmer energy recovery. Mesmer skills are not cheap either, but they have no advantage when it comes to managing energy - in fact they have less ability to do so than most other classes. The masters of energy manipulation are in fact slaves to their inspiration, practically needing to invest in it, even though it isn't their primary. Want to play Domination/Illusion? Where do you get your energy from? It's ridiculous. Of course they had to reduce the power of the Energy Drain/Energy Tap - they were actually good enough that other classes were supplementing with them! Now that they ca't do that there is less incentive to run inspiration, but everyone grabs Drain Enchanment for example.

Give mesmers their own ability. We need energy management within our class- if you don't want it abused make it a fast casting based ability. Then at least you know it's only mesmers using it.

jesh · Dec 01, 2005, 10:06 PM // 22:06

/signed

I like mesmers, they're shiny.

actionjack · Dec 01, 2005, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Why not just go Elm/Mes or Nec/Mes, and get the best of two world (energy wise)

Flame · Dec 02, 2005, 01:15 AM // 01:15

The problem is, should Inspiration and Fast Casting be switched, you would end up with Elementalist/Mesmers with Fast Casting and high cast-time spells. So really, unless Fast Casting was removed completely, there is no way to un-nerf the Mesmers.

TadaceAce · Dec 02, 2005, 02:35 AM // 02:35

As if energy denial mesmers weren't already powerful enough they want more!

jesh · Dec 02, 2005, 03:16 AM // 03:16

... There are a million and one ways to counter energy denial, chief among them, anyone can do without a SKILL. It's called focus swapping. Energy denial is not all too useful in the current game, if you ask me. (at least definitely not what it once was)

Hell Marauder · Dec 02, 2005, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Agree with OP. Too many useless inspiration skills. Get rid of those useless mantra (mantra of earth/frost anyone?) no sane mesmer will carry. Buff up energy drain, as 30 sec recharge is way too long for a regular skill like energy tap, let alone an elite skill like energy drain.

Epinephrine · Dec 02, 2005, 03:36 PM // 15:36

No, I don't wnat energy Drain and Energy Tap boosted really - I want to see

a) Useful energy management that isn't exploited by other primaries
b) Useful skills in Inspiration

As it is, there are fewer and fewer reasons to play a mesmer primary. Interrupts are fast enough without fast casting, other classes have better energy management and can still use inspiration, most mesmer abilities work fine at lower levels in their attributes and so on. Sure, it's nice to have a punishingly large shatter hex, but the fact is that denying a skill for 47 seconds with a diversion is plenty of time. The extra 10 seconds or so from a 16 Domination is cute, but not the most important. Hitting a spell with a powerleak at 0 domination still stops the spell, and at a 12 drains 22 energy. Is it really helpful to drain 26 instead by maxing it?

Heck - rangers do single target energy denial better than a mesmer, and have better overall skill shutdown abilities. Warriors who gear for it do excellent area energy denial while dealing damage. Elementalists have area interrupting from maelstrom and necromancers have spinal shivers, a very useful interrupting skill that allows far more efficient interruption on a given target. Mesmers still have useful abilities, but they aren't tops in many areas - even Echo, once a great reason for a caster to try to have mesmer secondary has been replaced in most cases by the buffed Glyph of Renewal. It's getting a bit ridiculous.

Scourgey · Dec 02, 2005, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Mesmers still have useful abilities, but they aren't tops in many areas - even Echo, once a great reason for a caster to try to have mesmer secondary has been replaced in most cases by the buffed Glyph of Renewal. It's getting a bit ridiculous.

Yes, I agree with that, the only time I would use echo is when there are spells thare are under 5 second cooldown to increase in spamming. Otherwise Glyph of renewal is so much better. especially for skills that are over 15 second in cooldown (most mesmer skills). Also it should be noted that it's possible to triple cast energy burn, by waiting 14 seconds after casting glyph, then casting energy burn, then recasting glyph, then casting energy burn again, and then casting energy burn for a 3rd time.

Mordakai · Dec 02, 2005, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Why not just go Elm/Mes or Nec/Mes, and get the best of two world (energy wise)

Why not indeed, actionjack. That is the problem.

I have an Me/E, and my thought process behind it was a fast Fire Storm caster (to put it bluntly).

But in retrospect, I'd rather have the Energy then the second or two faster Fire Storm....

AeroLion · Dec 05, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Let's keep this near the top. Something needs to be done to improve the energy situation for primary mesmers. I know they aren't exactly the most popular class for the vast majority of people but Anet still needs to help them out.

Goonter · Dec 05, 2005, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Ive always thought that the mesmer energy managment (when compared to the others) was sort of lacking for the nessacary use of a non primary attribute - inspirations.
I just sort of keep quite and crossed me fingers that chapter 2 will bring something better. But, since its been brought up...

I agree, but I dont see a happy/easy solution.
Fast Castings inherent advantages are nice, and perhaps could see more attention if FC skills are implemented into the game.

In the end, Id say add more energy managament skills in every mesmer attrubute (there are a few besides energy drain and energy tap across the mesmer class already) and add a lot of nice primary skills.

darkdragon99 · Dec 05, 2005, 10:50 PM // 22:50

mesmers are supposed to be the masters of magic and energy i find it odd that their energy managament skills are in last place

mm00re · Dec 05, 2005, 11:05 PM // 23:05

/signed

because my mesmer is dead sexy and needs energy management to go with it.

Banebow · Dec 05, 2005, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

a) Useful energy management that isn't exploited by other primaries
b) Useful skills in Inspiration

for a) I think that means tying it to fast casting. Any other attribute can be exploited by the other classes. I also do not think fast casting can be replaced, mesmers need to be quick with their spells, and some of those spells have a long cast time. Perhaps the primary attribute could be changed to "ether attunement" or the like, and read: "Each point of ether attunement reduces the casting speed of your spells. For every three points of ether attunement, you gain one energy whenever you successfully cast a spell." Slightly reduce the casting speed decrease from what fast casting is now. This lets you use those 3 and 4 second casting time spells, while also giving you some energy management that is not abusable by other classes. Though, thinking about it a bit more, that may be to abusable for mesmers, since 15 ether attunement would mean free 5 energy cost spells. Perhaps 1 energy for every 4-5 points?

for b) I'd like to see some sort of elite hex removal. Not only does no such removal currently exist, but the best hex removal skills are in the monk line. Mesmers are the manipulators of magical energies to suit their needs, and hexes are, in a sense, magical energy, so why not provide more good anti-hex skills in the inspiration line? The answer is probably that monks could abuse them, so give them, say, 3-4 second cast times. No monk in his right mind will try and spam a 4-second hex removal, but a mesmer could easily handle it. Some other interisting skills would be something like energy transfer, letting a mesmer send energy to other classes, though that may be to abusable (I am thinking of something like the effect of blood is power, though no sacrifice). Perhaps one skill could read "for the next 5. . .12 seconds, target other ally gains 1. . .4 pips of energy regen, and you lose 4. . .3 pips of regen." Bad energy management skill for the mesmer, but I could see it getting used.

PieXags · Dec 05, 2005, 11:24 PM // 23:24

I do agree, I'm sick and tired of seeing only domination mesmers around, with MAYBE some IW using guy every now and then. You hardly ever hear of someone pure Inspiration. Domination needs to take a crap and the other mesmer attributes need to not suck.

Then again, PieXags is using a mostly all signet build right now, so no worries about energy on my end.

Goonter · Dec 05, 2005, 11:32 PM // 23:32

I could see inspritions being a nice enchanment line.
I think inspritions and I think bard and enchanments.

Like an enchanement that reduces the effectivness of hexes or conditions?
Or a range increase buff or spell casters?
etc.

Fungus Amongus · Dec 05, 2005, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Sorry I don't have much Mesmer experience pre-nerf, but I find with a creative approach Mesmers are still very powerful. They might not deny energy as well as before, but I have few problems managing my own energy.

Note - I speak from more PvE experience so consider that with my reply. I'll have to do some more PvP once I have more unlocked before I can say much about that. PvE with my mesmer has been mostly a cakewalk. Honestly the hardest part is finding a group with people who actually know enough to accept a Mesmer into their group.

dr_james2k · Dec 06, 2005, 09:02 AM // 09:02

I think fact casting on its own if a good primary skill, especially if you want to interrupt or hev - which are the main purposes the mesmer.

However there is a more important factor to consider: they should really change the mesmer dance

Mordakai · Dec 06, 2005, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr_james2k

However there is a more important factor to consider: they should really change the mesmer dance

Why do you hate the Irish?

No, I agree, the Mesmer dance has to be one of the lamest... well, second to the Male Elementalist anyway!